An old debate I had with a Muslim in 2004

Note by Me: I was born ready for this and I've haven't debated a Muslim in a while so I may appear rusty, but you will get the point in this exchange.

A Muslim wrote:

Waste of your time primarly, and mine secondarly. Let me ask you a question, If to be able to go to heaven, you have to believe in Jesus Christ, yet what about all the people who lived before Jesus, is God that Unmerciful to throw them in Hell...Including Abraham, and all the other prophets who didnt believe in Jesus cuz he wasnt born yet, ohh so these prophets knew Jesus personnally and he told them to tell their people to believe in Jesus, not God?!?!

Response: I don’t waste my time investigating important issues of the day. Those who lived before Jesus had the early leaders and prophets to help people receive God. Abraham lived before the arrival of Jesus Christ in the flesh on Earth. The plan of God allowed those to follow God’s Law to go to heaven in the Old Covenant. That's why they didn't adhered to the Messiah yet. Many of the prophets didn’t realize of Christ, but some did like Isaiah who directly called the Messiah Mighty God (Jesus Christ). God’s plan was to allow his Son to arrive at a later certain point in history.

A Muslim wrote:

Wow since when did the Son become more praise worthy than the father. Simply too patriarichal. And plus If its Jesus's Job to save, what does God do? Does God actually make other people do the job for him?! I am sorry but your weakenning your God's capability, My God is Allah. Which is not a moon God as you stated but an unseen God who tests us by not appearing in the minimal capabilities of our mind and i can tell yours is much less than the rest of us. Before you attack a religion, go attack your own, or else someone else will. Oh yeah dont you know your own history?! The Christians were the ones considered Untolerant. Went to spain and slaughtered and butchered Jew and Muslims who lived in an Islamic state tolerant of the other two religions?

Response: I’ve never said of giving more praise to the Son than the Father. The Son is to be given equal praise and respect as to the Father. The Bible is patriachial and if you don’t like take it up with the Bible. Jesus is God and God does saves. God Father sent forth the plan, the Son suffered on the cross and gave his life to save souls, and the Holy Spirit inspires, teaches, and helps people to walk with God in a powerful way. That’s the connection. God gives man free will and God can work miracles, but God isn’t stupid. He realizes that it’s a person’s responsibility to help himself to receive aid from God. I’m not weakening God’s capability, but God isn’t a slot machine, but a intelligent being who we need him to succed. We will have to do some of our moves in achieving that with asking God for help like always, but not relying on God as the supreme compromiser of sin or folly. In other words, we help ourselves, so God can help us. Allah is your god. Allah isn’t the moon god, but the solar god of ancient times.

www.blessedquietness.com/...page10.htm

and

www.blessedquietness.com/...pend-5.htm

proves that Allah existed before Islam was created for the solar diety not the moon god that many Christians believe. Allah doesn’t mean Almighty God and many experts proved that before. Here’s entomology: The Word Allah is divided into the 2 syllables Al and Ilah. Al means the in Arabic. Ilah doesn’t mean Almighty God in Arabic, but “the deity” which was utilized in pre-Islamic times by many Arabic tribes. Many scholars point out that Ilah (the deity) was utilized for a wide variety of deities:

“All said 'Allah', but each one had its own deity in mind. The expression 'the god' (al-ilah), which became the only usage, became the bridge to the concept of an identical god which all tribes had in common” (J.Wellhausen, p. 218)

*Allah just originated from Mesopotamia and caught on by Muhammad to devise his religion of Islam:

“We will now discuss the derivation process of the god's name from the beginning. We might have waited until the end for this revelation, but it seemed good to me to let you in on the plot so that you can follow the Hajj of Allah better. The root form of the name of the earth god in Sumer is found in Enlil, the primal god. If we drop the gender prefixes from Enlil and his consort Ninlil, we are left with the root, "LIL." This is reduced later in many cultures to "IL." (Some "scholars" have tried to say that IL is EL, but the root form of IL is LIL, so this notion just won't work. Of course these "scholars" have no respect for the Bible unless it supports their presuppositions.) The system of putting prefixes before the god names was used in the Hamatic cultures like Sumer. After the god / goddess moved on to Semitic cultures such as Assyria and Semitic Babylon, a suffix was attached after the "LIL" or "IL" root.

The most startling coincidence to me, of ancient Sumerian god names concurrently inscribed in the same epigraphs with much more recent god names, is in an inscription in stone from Al-Ula in Northern Arabia, circa 500 BC, just 1000 years before Muhammad. In the same Semitic language dialect, and in the same time frame, are two other names of the gods- Mar-Allah, meaning Lord-god, and Adar'IL, a Sardonic contraction using the root form of the name for god from Sumer, LIL.

This shows that the basic IL or LIL root form survived for 2500 years, appearing in both names in ancient and recent forms! In Jawf, in the same area and time frame, the feminine form for Allah is found commonly as in Ham'illat (ILAT is the goddess). Also, in inscriptions near oases, Allah and Allat (sometimes ILAT) appear with no descriptive attachments, either in appeals for help in travel, or as part of the signature of the suppliant (like Abdallah-- IL root in name!). What does this mean? This means that IL and Allah shared the reverence of the ancient Sumerians, circa 3000 BC, and the northern Arab tribes in 500 BC. Survival time-- 2500 years. (Winnett, F V, and Reed, W L, Ancient Records From North Arabia, Univ. of Toronto, 1970 [This is a key source for epigraphs.] pg. 79,126-127 / 245,253b. Winnett has done some of the best and most recent work in inscription interpretation.)

*The Answering Islam site says this : “This is not a pretty sight to the Muslim reader because it clearly shows that Allah descended from the original pagan god, Enlil, after the tower of Babel. The reason we can be sure of the connection between Babel (or Sumer) and Mecca is that Enlil, whose LIL root name would not go away, survived for 2500 years to be included in Northern Arabia in the Kaaba.”

“Muhammad cleansed the Kaaba of 360 pagan idols and gods, but he retained the resident god of choice, Al-ILAH, or Allah. If he was extending the heritage of EL or Elohim into the world, as he claimed he was, then why didn't Muhammad use one of the clearly biblical names extant in the Bible AND right there in Arabia? In fact, Allah and Elohim are mutually exclusive, so Allah is a pagan counterfeit.” (Van Netton, Steve, Allah Divine or Demonic, pg. 113-14, 1998)

“The Quraysh ADOPTED ALLAH AS BAAL, and added the goddesses to his cult the same way as Baal had three daughters in the Fertile Crescent. They venerated him and his three female companions in his new House, the Kaaba at Mecca.” (Bergsson, Snorri G., Goddesses and Wica worship,'Neo-paganism at its most deceptive form, Islam and Goddess Worship Chpt. IV, pg. 15, 1998-2000)

 

I dissent with a false religion and every man has a right to disagree with other religions if there is falsehood in it. I’m a man so I won’t back down on this issue. I know my history of my race, of America, and other things very well, so I don’t need lectures about history. Intolerance of evil, sin, and hate is good and biblical. I’m intolerant of sin, hate, vengeance and anti-God concepts and I like that indeed. Catholics not Christians murdered Jews and Muslims in the Spanish Inquistion and that isn’t justified. Muslims attacked all of North Africa stealing their land (millions of square miles) in the Middle Ages. Also, Muslims are trying to kill my people off in Sudan. 2 million dead in 20 years!!!!!!!!! What kind of stuff is that and you’re lecturing me about history. Islam also enslaved blacks for centuries and still do so unto this day which isn’t justified now. Saudi Arabia is an Islamic state now and they practice in religious intolerance by jailing or killing religious dissidents.

A Muslim wrote:

And dont you know that the western part of Rome was the worst place to be in the Middle ages? Where Christianity was established? By force.What kind of tolerance is that. And that they converted or killed whoever opposed the idea of praying to Saints for forgivness (again giving people God's responsablitity) And having priests forgive you during confession...Hey i thought it was Jesus that forgives, I guess Jesus gives his Job to other people as well...well like father like son.Oh and How would mohammed have known how an embryo looks like in a mother's womb looked like. Or that theres seven skies I.E Stratosphere..theres actually 7. Or the revival of Rome during the renaissance period. All written in the Quran. Does your bible have that?! Anyways see you in heaven.

Response: During the Middle Ages, Western Europe had trouble, but the Bible Believing Celts and Irishmen like Columbanus and St. Patrick tried to spread the Bible into Europe to assist European ignorance of God and truth. Christianity was never shown by force. The Koran explicitly has violent references and as little as decades after Muhammad’s death, Islam spread by force and killed thousands of people to convert to their false religion. This isn’t tolerance. Real Christianity suffered death by the Roman Empire decades after Christ's resurrection and ascension into heaven. Fake Christianity spread by force since forced conversion and violence is forbidden in God’s Word.

All of this killing and praying to saints for forgiveness refers to the Papal religion not real Biblical Fundamental Christianity. There is no proof of the NT of having priests to forgive all my sins with confession so this is a tactic to falsely equate Romanism with Christianity which isn’t the case at all. Jesus does forgives alone and I’m no Papist so I reject forgiveness by priests. All believers are priests as set forth in the NT. Muhammad realizing of an embryo, 7 heavens, etc. have nothing to do with the conversion issue at all. The Quran has tons of errors while the Bible doesn’t (There are resources that answer every supposed contradiction in the Bible).

www.answer-islam.org/

dianedew.com/islam.htm

www.jesus-is-lord.com/islam.htm

www.jesus-is-lord.com/islam2.htm

are real sites with rational thought of dissenting with Islam. I hope you repent and leave Islam and convert to Jesus Christ.

November 10, 2004

A Muslim wrote:

The truth is with God right? But your scripture are corruped and you cant proove otherwise. And so right now your following some priest who decided to change the bible to conform to his patriarchal needs. If you think this is non-sense. Take a history of Music course. They changed words around to conform to the celebration either easter or christmas. And if you saw Passion of the Christ, you would hear at a certain moment Jesus Uttering in aramaic "Ya Ilahi" Ilah is Allah in Arabic...Ilahi means MY...

Response: The truth is God and his Word right. The scriptures are never corrupted with the Magdean Papyrus (64 A.D.), all books of the NT done (100 A.D.), Syrian Peshitta (147 A.D.), Old Latin (150 A.D.), and other versions of the word recorded for 2,000 years. Homer's Illiad wasn't in written copies until hundreds of years later yet the Bible had written copies in less than 3 decades after the ascension of Jesus Christ. If you want to call the Bible less than accurate, call nearly every ancient scripts from ancient Babylon, India, Persia, Africa, etc. inaccurate since they had the same procedures and higher delay of recording than the Bible has. Scholars finding almost of the NT in the words of the Church Elders and the Massoreth texts preserving the OT, makes the Bible one of a kind, unique, and infallible. I’m not Catholic so I don’t follow a priest and I don’t believe in changing God’s word to suit patriarchal needs since the Bible itself is basically patriarchal in terms of leadership. Islam is even patriarchal with Muhammad and his allies, so you need to take it up with Islam as well. There’s always a possibility of change, but when the words over the centuries look accurate, then I don’t doubt it. The Koran had no at the fact preservation in decades, but its first written copies existed in at a mininum of 200 years after Muhammad’s death. We have copies of the NT as early as 64 AD. And have the Dead Sea Scrolls containing tons of the OT with the Massoretic texts housing the OT equating Biblical preservation so I’m not worried at all. Easter and Christmas are pagan holidays and many Christians refuse to celebrate them like Baptists and independent groups so it’s no consequence toward me at all.

The Passion is a Satanic movie with addition to the Bible, pagan scenes, occult actions, and deception so forget the movie. Allah refers to the solar god and even if Cavaziel said Ilah, it’s still inaccurate by the other parts of him saying chalice which never appears in the Bible.

 

Muhammad was someone who:

a). added to the New covenant when Christ at the cross instituted it with any addition from further “prophets.” b). Has violent fruit by many Muslims invading sovereign countries to illegally retrieve land in North Africa and other regions as a matter of decades after Muhammad’s death. C). Provide a set of beliefs that contradict the Bible and even the Quran in several instances that I’ve pointed out. Many include that Abraham lived in the valley of Mecca (Sura 14:37). The Bible says he lived in Hebron. Pharoh's wife adopted Moses (Sura 28:8, 9). Bible says it was Pharoh's daughter. Surah 11:44 says that Noah’s Ark rested on Mount Judi when it landed on Mount Arafat in Armenia. Surah 6:74 calls Abraham’s father Azar when the Bible says that it was Terah. Surah 37:100-112 says that Abarham was about to sacrifice Ishmael when the Word of God clearly states that Abraham was about to sacrifice Isaac. These simple examples of the numerous distortions of the truth by Islam therefore the Quran is less than perfect when the Bible have thousands of copies and preserved for 1,000s of years. As for women and Islam, much of the Koran does grant woman some equality with men, but a man can beat a wife while the woman can’t do the same (Surah 4:34), a man can have up to 4 wives while a woman can’t have up to 4 husbands (Surah 4:3), and in inheritance (Surah 4:11). Islam is a false religion.

 

 

By Timothy

 

 

The Uniqueness of the Bible (I've created this in 2004)

Appendix A: The Uniqueness of the Bible

*The Bible is the eternal word of God. It's unchanging, absolute, supreme, authoritative, infallible, and the pure standard for faith and practice. The Bible is by far the most important book ever written in the history of the word. It is the most loved and hated book of all. There is no question of the Bible's veracity.

It consists of 66 books and took 1600 years to create. The authors include 40 people of a multitude of backgrounds like prophets, priests, cupbearers, a king, judges, fishermen, apostles, etc. and it was written on the three continents of Africa, Asia, and Europe. The Bible has been translated in over 1,200 different languages or dialects along with being faithfully preserved for this long.

Theological, Philosophical, and Scientific arguments from both sides have existed in fierce deb ate of it. I feel it's very accurate and true. Newer archaeology has found more evidence to confirm the Bible more than any ancient document of ancient history. That's a fact. the Bible has the total divine revelation from God to man to use and follow.

I). Sources of copies Compared to other Documents

Dr. F. F. Bruce was the former Rylands Professor of Biblical Criticism and Exegesis at the University f Manchester. He compared various manusciprts.

Name of Historical Document	Earliest Copy Found	Copies known today	The Original Date of the Copy
Caesar's Gallic Wars	900 A.D.	9-10	100-44 B.C.
Plato	900 A.D.	7	427-327 B.C.
Homer's Illiad	400 B.C.	643	900 B.C.
Aristole	1100 A.D.	5	384-322 B.C.
Thyucydides	700 A.D.	8	384-322 B.C.
Tactius's Annals	1100 A.D.	10	100 A.D.
Seutonius	950 A.D.	8	75-160 A.D.
Sophocles' Oedipus	600 A.D.	193	496-403 B.C.
The New Testament	48-110 A.D.	24,633	125 A.D.

It's known that the NT alone has almost 25,000 copies in existence today for comparison making the Bible very unique and pernicious. Other biblical scholars have maintained that proposition such as Sir Frederic Kenyon, one of the great authorities in the field of New Testament textual criticism:

“The internal, then, between the dates of original composition and the earliest extant evidence becomes so small as to be in fact negligible, and the last foundation, for any doubt that the Scriptures have come down to us substantially as they were written has now been removed. Both the authenticity and the general integrity of the books of the New Testament maybe regarded as finally established.” (Sir Frederic Kenyon, The Bible and Archaeology, 1940, 288).

*The entire NT canon is not missing and the 86,000 quotations from the early church show nearly all of the verses from the NT. Even the great scholar A. T. Robertson said that the real concern over the text are only a thousandth part of the entire text so the NT is 99.9% free of significant variants.

II). Archaeological Accuracy

There is now tons of archaeological evidence to validate the Bible. First the NT must be presented and then the OT to be coherent Here’s various evidences:

a). The 49 A.D. Claudius expulsion of the Jewish people from Rome is mentioned at Acts 18:2. This is a proven fact from Suetonius’ Life of Claudius at 25:4.

b). In 1868, an inscribed store was discovered mentioning Mesha, King of Moab (in Jordan) and his overthrow of Israel, King Omri and has the name of the God of Israel (YHVH) as shown forth in the Holy Bible.

c). The existence of the Lord Jesus Christ is recorded by Tactius, Josephus, Suetonius, Thallus, Pliny the Younger, the Talmud, Lucian, and others as early as 100 A.D. along with the Bible of course.

d). The Exodus and the plagues to Egypt are shown in the Bible and this is also validated by the recently discovered Ipuwer Papyrus which shows the plagues occurring to Egypt as well.

e). There is the campaign of the Assyrian King Sennacherib against Judah. (2 King 18:13-16) which is recorded on Sargon’s II’s palace walls.

f). In Caesarea in 1961, two Italian archaeologists excavated an inscription in Latin that read “Pontius Pilate, Perfect of Judea, has presented the Tiberium to the Caesareans” This was the first non-Biblical reference to Pilate.

g). Who can forget the Dead Sea Scrolls discovered by Bedouin boys in January 1947. It ranged from 200 B.C.-200 A.D. and matches in many areas of the Massoretic text of 1000 A.D. It details many OT chapters with verses expecting the Messiah (The Lord Jesus Christ) in prophecy.

III). Science

It might seem very shocking or weird, but even the Bible displays many fundamental Bible facts and realities dealing with science.

a). Pslam 8:8 This dictates the paths of the seas or ocean paths which wasn’t too known for over 2,500 years ago by David. Matthew Maury, a U.S. Naval officer discovered water patterns way after this verse was conceived describing undersea currents.

b). Isaiah 40:22 The Earth is round, a sphere.

c). Job 26:7 This displays that the Earth hangs in space or hangs in nothing but outerspace.

d). Leviticus 17:11 This manifests the point of the blood is directly involved in the life of the organism since blood carries all life processes of the body, causes growth, build new walls, grows bone , stores fat, develops flesh, hair, and nails. Blood also help fight disease, repairs your body, and gives life in a strong way.

e). Eccelsiastes 1:6-7 The water cycle is conveyed since it describes condensation and evaporation. The sun or a heat source evaporates the water from the ocean, then the water vapors becomes clouds, then fall to the earth as rain, snow, etc. to the oceans to start up again. This wasn’t known until the scientist Galileo found out about it in 1630 A.D. and the writer of Ecclesiastes knew this at 1,000 B.C. Also, Job 26:8, 36:27-28, 37:16 outlines that as well.

f). Job 28:25 This verse proclaim that the atmosphere with wind has weight.

g). Pslam 102:26 This verse displays the concept of entropy or that energy is running down over time.

IV. The Prophecies of the Bible and the Signs of the

End Times:

Prophecy written in the Bible just elevates the Bible into a whole other class above many of the ancient religious texts from Buddhism, Hinduism, and Islam, etc. The Bible more exquisitely flows of the future than any other literature and on many occasions, their predictions came true in a span of hundreds or even thousands of years in advance.

Peter Stoneer, a mathematician and scientist, in his book Science Speaks specified that just 8 out of 300 prophecies which fulfilled about the Messiah Jesus Christ are one in 10^17 chances of coming true. 48 out of just over 300 fulfilled prophecies are 1 in 10^157 chances of transpiring making the Bible very inspired and mightier than the odds.

He researched this information extremely carefully as collaborated by the prestigious American Scientific Affiliation stating, “The Mathematical analysis included is based upon principles of probability which are thoroughly sound and Professor Stone has applied these principles in a proper and convincing way.” Here’s a number of fulfilled prophecies outlined in the Holy Bible.

a). Ezekiel 36:24, Matthew 24:32-34 This is a reference to the birth of Israel on May 14, 1948. The fig tree=Israel is a metaphor that Christ always used to symbolize Israel being a nation realizing the end of the age is near. Thousands of Jewish people have migrated to Israel whether apostate Zionist extremists or authentic Messianic Jewish individuals or Jewish Christians honorably worshipping the Messiah, the Lord Jesus Christ. Israel is a testament to the validity of Bible prophecies.

b). Ezekiel 26:16 The destruction of the city of Tyre is outlined here and this was prophesied by Ezekiel in 586 B.C. The fulfillment came when Nebucchadnezzar destroyed the inland city of Tyre and Alexander the Great ruined the island plus even the re-built city of Tyre. Even today, the old site of Tyre is nothing more than a location where fishermen spread thei r nets.

c). Matthew 24:7, Luke 2:11 Earthquakes, famines, pestilences, and hostile folly will plague mankind and now it has. Earthquakes have certainly increased in this world more than anytime in human history. From 1800-1900, 645 earthquakes existed and from 1900-1994, 1845 earthquakes existed. The crazy fact is that from 1994-2000 in just 6 years, there were 1163 earthquakes, which is 175.2 times higher than the ones from 1800-1900.

I have to mention the newer earthquakes near Richmond, Virginia, the 6.5 Richter scale earthquake in Central California, and the earthquake killing thousands of innocent people in Iran all occurring just in late December 2003 alone!!! Prophecy is here. AIDS, SARS, STDs, Anthrax, mad cow disease, ricin, flu, biological warfare, etc. in the 20th-21st centuries and beyond have formulated more than all plagues in recorded history combined. Millions are dead in just 100 years.

d). Matthews 24:6 Wars are common place now especially after when we were attacked by our own government and the Illuminati in 9/11. 8,000 treaties have been made and broken, an any day soldiers are fighting in 30-40 nations, 7 million people died since the 1970’s due to war, and over 100 million people have died in all wars during the 1900’s including the reign of Communism at Vietnam, Russia, China, Angola, China, etc.

e). Daniel 12:4 The time of the end is now with knowledge increasing at an unheard of rate. In 1991, knowledge doubled every 10 years and now it doubles in every 22 months.

f). Nahum 2:4 The fast travel of vehicles are prophesized here in using chariots=vehicles. The Bible also describes flying vehicles or airplanes in prophecy.

g). Matthews 24:2 Jesus predicted the destruction of Jerusalem and it happened along with its Second Temple at 70 A.D. when Roman armies under Titus killed 1.1 million Jewish people for 143 days. Josephus, the great Jewish historian, even recounted his very destruction and wrote about Christ.

h). Psalm 22:16 The crucifixion of Jesus Christ is shown here. This was written at 1020 B.C.-970 B.C. centuries before the Persians, Greeks, and the Romans invented crucifixions. This was fulfilled on Mark 15:25 plus ton of other verses. Over 300 prophecies exist describing the life, death, and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ.

i). Revelation 9:21 Drug increase is made manifest. Sorceries is from the Greek word Pharmacia meaning drugs or an enactment with drugs like alcohol, cocaine, tobacco, marijuana, heroin, etc. which are all evil inheritably in drug use. Therefore we use a pharmacy as a location to receive drugs.

j). Revelation 3:13-17 The majority of the Christian churches today are lukewarm through Satan, the United Nations, WCC (World Council of Churches), ecumenicalism, etc.

Many churches have compromised and even accepted abortion, homosexuality, sexual promiscuity among youth, adultery, pornography, evil sexual lusts, effeminate males, laziness, false doctrines, false doctrines like being rich=favor by God, racism, etc. as legitimate concepts to embrace. ‘Tis better to go to an independent, Post-Tribulational Church to acquire real truth and real doctrines.

k). Genesis 11:4-7, Revelation 13:5-8 The formation of the one world government or the New World Order is just here. There are dozens of speeches orated by President George W. Bush, Henry Kissinger, David Rockefeller, and others constantly referring to a “New World Order.”

The Bible says that the Anti-Christ will head the global government as its ruler with the Satanic United Nations having a say in the one-world government as well. NAFTA, WTO, American Union, GATT, ASEAU, and the European Union (with its natural coin called the Euro Dollar formed at January 1, 2003) are basically the foundational groups for the coming one world government.

*More and more prophecies can be presented, but these portions are strident.

Other prophecies i nclude microchip technology, atomic, or nuclear weaponry, scoffers, folks not embracing sound doctrine like mandatory celibacy for clergy and vegetarianism as Paul said “abstaining from meats”, increased public displays of Satanism as the Bible says embracing “the doctrine of devils”, television used as the whole world witnessing the execution of the death of the 2 witnesses (Elijah and Enoch), lying prophets and liars claiming to be Christ, etc.

The end of the Tribulation will be the resurrection, the coming of the New Millennium, final victory of Jesus Christ, the New Jerusalem, and a New Heaven and a New Earth with a peaceful eternity with Almighty God. Now that’s the truth and real prophecy in front of your eyes.

By TruthSeeker24